Digital Dialogues - EYP Talk - Have your say on Europe's future - Free movement of workers - Comments

my belief

Pascaley — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:33:57 +0000

I believe that yes the media do hype up immigration. However, i do feel Britain need to become a lot more strict on the amount of people they let in. Clearly countries such as France have problems with the Algerians, and i believe that in a few years Britain will have the same problems.

'Brain Drain'

Sophie Stewart — Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:14:55 +0000

Michael Leyland's point is certainly an interesting one. How can we expect newer entrants to the EU to meet the expectations set by key older member states, when a significant proportion of their skilled workers are being enticed by higher wages to work abroad, meaning their home country loses out in the long run, with fewer and fewer future professionals to benefit their economy and strengthen the nation as a whole?

The other side

Michael Leyland — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:07:27 +0000

There does seem to be much debate to be had regarding the impact of ‘foreign workers’ on the British economy, however I would like to widen this debate in order to consider the impact this movement of workers can have on the country of origin. As Chris pointed out in his post, there is another side to this movement of workers and that is the side of the countries who are losing large numbers of their working population, with many workers being tempted by the prospect of a higher wage in a more economically developed country. Most notably in Germany immigrant workers have been used to fill the void left by an ageing population, however this only leads to even greater gaps appearing in the labour market of the countries in which these workers are coming from. Whilst this movement of workers may boost the economy of larger European nations it can actually have a negative impact on smaller and often newer member states. In this sense isn’t this free movement of workers working in the opposite way to Robin Hood in taking from the poor to give to the rich?!

Good afternoon everyone,

Jill — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:15:58 +0000

Good afternoon everyone, Even though not from the UK, i thought i would contribute something to this forum. It was interesting to read comment from Mr Royal, as I think it is a sentiment shared by many; BUT i think this argument is where way too much attention is given to this small negative effect. So i would like to point out a couple of points: I dont agree that "foreign workers" are stealing jobs here as very often those people that Rich refers to are doing jobs that people here are actually unwilling to do. Their pay is still small (but relatively high compared to what would they earn back home) and the loss for the economy by them is not that large as often put here. Furthermore, i think these problems are only short term - as the economies of newer members develop, such treds will become less and less frequent. An interesting fact is that news about how many highy skilled workers have entered the UK to work never reach headlines, this issue often is only discussed from one angle and one never wonders what added value have new skills brought to the British economy. I am currently working at an international company based in London where half of the employees come from various EU countries. I can say that they that none of them are here to abuse British social security system, instead they pay taxes, spend their money here and most of all work towards improving British economy. I believe that the gains from the free movement definately outweight the costs for the British society and i think it is the governments resposnibility to explain this to avoid people's misconceptions (as those what Rich has) about foreign workers.

biased views on immigration

alice28 — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 22:22:19 +0000

This is a reply for wildvt - It is very easy to blame. There are many mis-understandings on the real effects of immigration in the UK. A common criticism on immigrants is the idea that they parasite on the labour force in the country they go to by claiming benefits, namely unemployment benefit. Those who hold such a view is almost certain to be unaware of how welfare system works in the UK. To claim for unemployment benefit, you need to have contributed 6 month worth of national insurance in the past two years. Once you are receiving unemployment benefit, you need to have evidence that you are constantly actively seeking work, if not , your benefit payment will be stopped. Another point to be raised is that I feel immigrants help to make the labour force more competitive and efficient. As more labourers enter the UK, it increases the pool of labour supply, meaning employers have more candidates to choose from for a post. It is certain employers will choose the person who are hard working. This will increase efficiency and thus total output of British workers who are at the moment 20% less efficient than French workers - a country with a mass immigration population where the supply for labour is much greater than the demand for labour. The government's proposal in raising compulsory education to 18 is one way of making Britons more competitive internationlly; to increase efficiency, I see immigration as the way, despite the growing popularity of the BNP and bourgeois complaints.

what about the argument of

RichardRoyal — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:02:59 +0000

what about the argument of those who would suggest that the free movement of workers means that working class british folk are losing their job to immigrant workers who are earning money in the UK and then sending their wages back to their families in other EU countries, depriving the British Economy... I know plenty of people worried about this!!!

Migration

chris.mackin — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:18:13 +0000

When considering the question of whether movement of workers assures peace and prosperity, I had to think for a minute whether these two things went hand in hand. I have come to the conclusion that they dont. Taking prosperity first of all, there is no doubt of the benefits migrant workers bring to an economy. However, the loss of working age population from their native country can be damaging both to demographic status and to the economy. However this can be countered by 'social dumping' with foreign investement and company plants being set up so as to reduce their costs, thus improving the economy of the country invested in. Does the free movement of workers assure peace? Well, if we take what these tabloid newspapers state and interpret it literally, as many people in Britain have done, we may be facing some future difficulties. It seems that tabloids always seem to search for the negative in every situation. In my opinion, this leads to a negative view on the country becoming predominant amongst the portion of the population who read tabloids. I was very disturbed a few months back when I watched Question Time. It was a debate on the right for muslim women to wear the hijab. A man sporting a Celtic shirt stood up and said that because 98% of the population of the UK wished for muslim women not to wear the hijab, that the woman in question must remove it. It was later discovered that this so called 98% was taken from a sample of people and printed in one of the tabloids. To get back to my point, if we do not tackle the problems of this culture of negativity and sometimes even xenophobia expressed by the papers, who ironically leave Jade Goody out to hang for her unfortunate remarks during Celebrity Big Brother, we may well see a further resurgence in far right parties in the EU. If we want to ensure peace and stability yet further encourage migration, we need to be sure that the population are given more information of the many positive benefits of labour migration

It is very easy to blame

wildvt — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:40:51 +0000

It is very easy to blame foreigners for the lack of jobs and the (supposed) rising crime rate is another factor that is synonymous with immigrants. If an immigrant does not get a job he is lazy and just a parasite on the wealthfare state....so what should be done?? On cannot work because you are taking a local's job, yet if you don't the local is working to support you. Do neither and you are naturally involved in criminal activities. Immigration is one of the best things that can happen to a counrty; ON CONDITION THAT (i) The country accepts its new CITIZENS (ii)Immigrants actively participate in trying to uphold the law, culture, responsibilities and people of their host country by positivly becoming part of it. In this way it will no longer be an "us and them" situation. On the economic side, the same horn was blown when spain became a part of the EU....i don't see a flood of spanish workers, taking siestas all day and destroying the country with their paella. Spain has one of the biggest growth rates in the EU, and it is not because they were stealing jobs in other countries.

The free movement of workers

Michael Leyland — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:52:43 +0000

Hello everybody! I would first of all like to thank Roland Rudd for his opening comments as well as those subsequently made by Levitca and Teddy. My name is Mike and I will be the moderator for this particular topic. I certainly agree that the current trend for national newspapers to take the stance that ‘they come over here, they take our jobs and steal our women’ tends to ignore the positive impact which this free movement of labour has had on many European countries. However, I would like to question whether this free movement of workers does in fact ‘assure peace’ when negative comments by the media appear, if anything, to create more conflict. Whilst I would be the first to admit that the economic aspect of this topic is not my strongest point, I hope that through comments such as that made by Teddy I will able to learn a bit more about this side of the debate. I think one thing which Teddy’s post does raise is the question of management and whether or not this movement of labour should be completely free or whether this freedom needs to be managed, ensuring all of the economies across the European Union, and not simply the larger nations, benefit from this movement.

Movement of Workers

Teddy_D — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:26:23 +0000

I also agree with the comments made so far, however one should also consider the side-effects of immigration. First of all, the extent to which the economy benefits depends on what kind of labour force is coming from abroad and whether any empty job vacancies are filled. Then, the necessary spending on provision of more health services, maybe schooling, benefits etc should also be considered. I am completely for immigration and believe it would bring only benefits as long as the economy is flexible enough to cope with the costs that arise.

Movement of Workers

levitica — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:07:09 +0000

I agree with the post above. Incoming workers are nothing but a good thing - the UK is short on people of working age. The paper stories are ridiculous. Movement is good for all involved.

The free movement of workers

Roland Rudd — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:24:45 +0000

Free movement of labour is sometimes depicted as something threatening and dangerous. Open a British newspaper, and you’ll see a number of negative stories about Polish plumbers and the influx of immigrants from countries like Romania and Bulgaria. However, there are so many positives that come from having an open labour market. On the one hand it enables people from the UK to work in France, Germany and throughout the continent of Europe. This has opened up many commercial opportunities and led to people starting successful businesses in other countries. Many young people from the UK can now travel to the continent and enjoy the right to work in another country. In the other direction, people from different European countries have travelled to the UK seeking fresh opportunities. These incoming workers often take jobs in areas that the British worker has shunned, especially in the service sector. They are a source of prosperity and creativity. Surveys show that their arrival has boosted the UK’s economic growth. There is scant evidence to suggest that their arrival has caused an increase in unemployment Recent expansion of the EU has seen many ex-Soviet Bloc states join the club. Two decades ago this would have been unthinkable. To the benefit of all its members Europe is being reunified. Now it is the prospect of a European conflict that seems unthinkable. The free movement of workers is a key pillar of the European single market. This is not to say that the process is complete. The free movement of workers must be accompanied by the free movement of goods and services. The more we enable cross- border transactions, the more our economy and our minds will grow. Policies such as the free movement of workers are one of the biggest insurance policies we have against future European conflict.

Free movement of workers

Graham — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:20:02 +0000

Does the free movement of workers across borders assure peace and prosperity?

The panellist in this discussion is:

Roland Rudd
Chairman, Business for New Europe

Roland Rudd is the Chairman of Business for New Europe, which launched in March 2006 to support the UK’s active engagement in Europe. BNE is an independent coalition of business leaders articulating a positive case for European reform. He is also the Senior Partner of Finsbury Ltd.